"Civil servants have too much power." "I am a Christmas hater." And, "The new minister of VRO should be given more mandate to solve problems such as grid congestion and nitrogen." Just three statements by Friso de Zeeuw, emeritus professor of area development and last year chairman of the controversial STOER program of outgoing minister Mona Keijzer. An interview: "I thrive on resistance."
He is almost 74 but not a gray hair on his head contemplating hanging up his shoes in the housing market willows. The professional provocateur visibly enjoys the attention (positive or negative) he keeps garnering with his ever-spiky columns and taboo opinion posts on LinkedIn and other media. Resistance keeps him in the saddle. Friso de Zeeuw thrives on it, he says.
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And that is why the man who was put to work last year by Minister Mona Keijzer to track down and eliminate unnecessary and contradictory building and environmental regulations is looking back on 2025 with twinkling eyes and the occasional subdued giggle. Although no rule has yet been adjusted or eliminated, De Zeeuw says much has been accomplished in a short time.
But what exactly? And what does he believe is still needed to really get housing production, which this year too - at around 70,000 - is well behind the target of 100,000 plus? We speak to De Zeeuw at the Jaarbeurs restaurant Speys in Utrecht, as part of the recording of a special Christmas episode of the podcast Bureau Stoer. As we know him, he goes straight in with a straight leg.
What do you think of the restaurant?
"Empty."
You want more audience?
"I want more audience."
What do you have with Christmas?
"Totally nothing. I think it's a ***** time and with all that sweetness. Yes, and that terrible music."
Seriously? We don't have to sing to you?
"... We don't have a Christmas tree at home either, not even a twig or a stall. I'm a Christmas hater."
Also not a favorite Christmas song?
"Yes. Lonely Christmas by André Hazes."
These are pretty tough times for the construction industry. Things have to go faster. It has to be more sustainable and meanwhile there are plenty of problems, like nitrogen and grid congestion... Do you think more reconciliation is needed around the debate on area development?
"No. Building is a struggle and it always will be. It would be good, though, if we reached agreement and consensus a little more often."
What do you think the ideal area development looks like?
"I see more and more examples of this, such as in the Gnephoek or near Arnhem. Complicated plans with big ambitions, but where they still manage to be realized. We will have to get many more such plans in the coming years. That is only possible with public-private partnerships, and that is experiencing a bit of a revival now."
What needs to happen to further that?
"The new Minister of Housing and Spatial Planning must be given more say, a greater mandate and coordination powers with respect to his or her colleagues on dossiers such as, nitrogen, grid congestion and environmental issues. If you ask me, "Environment" should go back to the ministry. Indeed as it used to be. A ministry of VROM."
You were especially busy last year scrapping rules, the program STOER. ..
"Actually it was called STOR. But Mona (Keijzer, ed.) thought that was a stupid name. Then she spontaneously turned it into STOER."
It was not necessarily a pleasant year for you. You received a lot of criticism for your proposals. Or did you enjoy it?
"I do like some opposition. I thrive on that."
You are emeritus professor of area development, but at one point it was all about enabling steeper stairs and lower ceilings. You're not going to save the world with that, are you?
"We made many more recommendations, of course. And a salient detail. Actually, we had been appointed as a sounding board group, so then you have something to rail against. But nothing came. The only useful proposals came from the civil service, on the issue of the Building Code. All those other themes we actually had to fill in, figure out and formulate ourselves."
But surely Friso's legacy cannot be steeper stairs and lower ceilings?
"... We also have steep stairs at home. And I'm almost 74, but that's harsh on the muscles. And even after a modified ceiling height we are still at the top end of Western Europe, with all those tall people in Sweden say..."
There have been protests against these kinds of proposals. Do you think those adjustments will actually go through?
"Unless the new minister really doesn't want them to. But I think it will go through. January 1, 2027 is the plan."
Again. Surely this professor of area development does not take himself seriously when it comes to a lower ceiling height. You won't win the war with that, will you?
"You have to understand well. STOER is about finishing the Tower of Babel and that is the huge accumulation of all kinds of requirements that have arisen over the years that slow down the building process and make it too expensive. So if you want to finish that tower you come to a whole series of proposals, including these two."
Did the message get through? I mean. To what extent did Friso de Zeeuw get in the way of the program and its ambitions?
"Not in any way. I think they came to me precisely because I don't get distracted by resistance. It's about how you deal with that resistance. You have to alternate that. Sometimes you look for confrontation, other times you look for nuance and synergy. I somewhat tend to seek that confrontation, because I think it is functional. And I kind of like it."
Did top official Chris Kuipers regret your appointment?
"On the contrary."
What will remain of all your proposals once a new cabinet is in place?
"I think eighty percent of our proposals will be implemented. Some of them will directly save construction time of 1.5 years. It is true that the political hour of truth is yet to come in the House of Representatives, in early January during the discussion of the VRO budget. But I am not pessimistic. Led by Chris Kuijpers, the ministry has said that they embrace the whole story of Stoer and want to keep it together..."
So STOER will have a sequel. To what extent will you remain involved?
".. Basically, my job is done. But they can always call me."
Which tough topic should remain high on the agenda?
"Land. Land speculation is cost-increasing and delaying and therefore belongs on its own in the STOER repertoire."
When will you actually quit?
"In ten years I will be 84, maybe then it will be time to finish sometime."
Merry Christmas Friso. Perhaps a Christmas greeting after all?
"I feel like a Christmas tree without a peak."
Here too in the empty restaurant?
"No, no, no, this was one fine warm Christmas tree with real candles."
This interview is a summary of the podcast Bureau Stoer episode 9. In that podcast, Jan Willem van de Groep, opinion maker and programmer Building Balance, and Nicole Maarsen, area development expert, also talk along. Curious about the entire episode?
Then listen here.
Bureau Stoer episode 9
Christmas interview with Friso de Zeeuw: 'I thrive on resistance'
With: Friso de Zeeuw, chairman advisory committee STOER, Nicole Maarsen and Jan Willem van de Groep
Presentation: Thomas van Belzen
Montage: Kalynda Haaf (HaafVisual)
Previous episodes on net congestion in Bureau Stoer
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- White label factory turns housing market upside down
- Standard net-conscious building on the way
- Frisian builder already builds net-aware
- Builders are fed up with bureaucracy over grid congestion
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